Lily Katayama

Before the war, Lily (Inouye) Katayama grew up in the farming community of Kingsburg, a Central Valley town off of Highway 99. Born into a family of eight siblings, her family was one of the fortunate and rare cases of families who were able to hold on to their original property, with the original barn still standing at the time of the interview in 2002, making it well over 100 today. Lily has also held onto the precious family heirlooms that mark the dark time of her family’s incarceration: She still has the original suitcase that they took to camp, her family’s number 24919 marked on the front. Her memories of that time are that of a young girl, relatively carefree without the responsibilities of her normal household chores, finding the freedom to play, learn piano, and meet other children. “I remember we played a lot in Rohwer, and played Monopoly all day long. And we had our own talent show. In Jerome, the girls did baton twirling, I mean it was a big thing. And we made little hats out of oatmeal boxes.” 

For this interview, Grace Fleming visited Lily’s home in Selma, another city off of Highway 99 and just north of where Lily’s family originally laid down their roots in Kingsburg.

Today is May 2nd, 2002 and we're at Lily Katayama's lovely home in Selma. Lily can you tell me your full name?

Lily Yuriko Inouye Katayama. I was born in Kingsburg, California September 21, 1932.

Were you born in the house?

Yes, all eight of us. 

Can you name off all eight of your siblings and yourself?

Yes. My oldest brother's Takashi, Kazuo, Miwa, Hideko, Harry, Sumiko, Lilly, and Richard. Harry passed away in 1937 at the age of 10.

Oh my gosh. Do you want to say what happened?

This is what I heard, I don't know what the true story is. Some people say he died of a black widow spider bite and some other people say that he had a ruptured appendicitis. So I don't know. But I still remember when he died at the hospital, we were all gathered around his bed. 

Wow, that's a tragic event. Can you paint me a picture of what life was like before Pearl Harbor was bombed? What was your everyday life like?

If there was school we attended school and if there wasn't school we worked on the ranch. After we got home we had our chores.  

What did you grow? 

We had 20 acres, but it was diversified. And before the war and after the war, we had walnuts, apricots and the grapes were Thompson grapes, muskets, then there's a white grapes coming grapes. We had ribiers, and we had Alicante and Kerrigans. In those days you just didn't have one crop because if it failed--

You would be ruined. 

And this way the family could work because the family did outside work with the neighbors. We made extra money. Maybe that's why we were able to do our own by having a little bit of this and that. In the summertime, my family woke up early and they harvested the neighbors' grapes. And I was left at home to clean the house and have the dinner ready when they got home and did the laundry. And then if I caught up, I worked in the vegetable garden. My mother had a large vegetable garden and a large flower garden. And so it must have been before the war, too. I must have been eight years old. Because I remember after camp we had the electric washing machine but before camp we had the washboard and we had -- I remember washing the jeans with a brush. 

But after school, not really a chore, but in the wintertime when the apricot trees were pruned, we'd gather them up and stacked them in bundles about like that. I can't remember but a wire was put in there, twisted so then we could haul it home. And we used that to make the fire for the furo, the bath, to start that. And then after the fire started then we put in the stumps from the grapes. If we ran out of stumps we just used the brush [made from the apricots], the brush really made a hot fire. 

Since you were born in '32, Pearl Harbor was bombed when you were nine years old. Did you go to Japanese school?

Yes. And I went up to the third grade. So I don't know that much but in my class there is only three or four of us. 

How did you get to school?

On the bus. I think I was the only one in the family up 'til then to go to kindergarten and they carpooled. And I went to kindergarten with Mary Yamagata and Masaru Yoshimoto, he's called Mike now. [Mary] was my best friend. 

Now back then, in Kingsburg was all Japanese Americans? Or did it have other people from other ethnic backgrounds?

Yes, Armenians. A few Mexicans. 

Anything else you'd like to mention about life? 

Oh my mother had a flower garden and it was kind of a ritual thing. Every Monday I took flowers to school. Every Monday. I even took flowers to the neighbors when there were a lot of flowers. But when I was in second grade teacher was kind of mean -- if you talked too much she put tape over your mouth. But at the end of the year she gave me a pin because I took all these flowers to her.

She appreciated them. So the flowers were not to sell but just to give away and to enjoy? 

Mmhmm. My mother grew a lot of flowers maybe because we got flowers to the cemetery for my brother. I remember if we were going to church and if we went past the cemetery, we all bowed. I'm getting teary eyed [laughs].

Would you say life before Pearl Harbor was hard or fun?

It was hard but you know, we were poor but we were happy, you know? We all did our part. Worked very hard. My family grew -- god, I'm getting more teary eyed. My family grew watermelons before the war. And I do remember, it was on McCall Avenue. We had watermelons. And I remember as a kid that I used to help sell the watermelons. On one side [the culls] was 25 cents, and then there was a partition and on the other side it was 50 cents. 

So I went to camp when I was nine years old and that was May. And watermelons don't come out until June or July so I must have done this when I was seven or eight. And it is hard to -- you know when I see my grandchildren at that age and thinking, "I was that age and selling it? And you know nowadays you can't leave a youngster out there with the type of people there are now.

Did you interact with a lot of Caucasians and did you feel discrimination at that time?

No I didn't, I was too young, I guess. 

Do you know when your parents came to this country?

They both came turn of century and my dad in 1904 and my mother as a picture bride in 1915. 

Do you know where in Japan they came from?

Shimane. It's on the western side, the Korea side. My mother didn't have a chance to go back. They were gonna go back, and they were going to leave like a Monday and then my father had a heart attack on Friday. 

This is after the war? 

Yes. This was way after the end of the war -- they couldn't afford it. So they never made it. They shipped all the home omiyage back. But it wasn't then that he passed away, later on he passed away of a heart attack. My dad lived to be 83. My mother died and she was 91. And my grandmother in Japan, we did not know, my mother's mother was 94. 

You come from a family of women who survive a long time. Did your mother and father move around after they married or did they immediately settle in Kingsburg?

Immediately settled in Kingsburg. My father was a carpenter from Japan -- he built the barn and there were three rooms in that barn. A little kitchen, and it was kind of opened, and then kind of went to an L-shaped living room and then the one bedroom and that one had a door and had a wall. And a lot of people stayed over, they welcomed everybody. 

It was your guest house. 

Yes, and then, later on he built a house: four rooms, two bedrooms in the back, kitchen and a dining room. And there was a porch, old fashioned porch. We  got electricity when Harry died, that's when they put the electricity in. And I still remember cleaning the chimneys for the Kerosene lamps. That was a job we did on Saturdays. We went to cleaned those chimneys I remember with newspaper. did you have to pump water from a well or was it I guess because there were then after the war. I remember.

Did you have any chickens or horses?

Oh that's another thing, I had to feed the chickens and I think it was like corn or something. Oh we used to have some mean roosters sometimes, too that was scary when you're little. Then we had to gather the eggs and we always had brown eggs, always wanted white eggs. We had brown chickens. And I remember having baby chicks, you know. There was this round metal shaped thing that kept them warm. We had to feed them. I remember having turkeys, too. Our turkeys were black and brown feathered. 

And we had two mules. One was Jack, I don't know what the other's name was. But we were poor so we didn't have horses, mules were stubborn. You would whip them and they wouldn't move but they were white. And other people had horses. This is before the tractor days. I still remember ploughing. But we had a tractor. When we had the watermelons, we had a caterpillar tractor. 

You know a lot of people told me in 1941, a lot of families were just recovering from the Depression and they were starting to make purchases or investments like refrigerators or cars. And so it was sort of even sadder that after Pearl Harbor you had to get rid of things because you've been saving for so long. Did you feel that way? Did you notice that? 

Yes but you know, everything was so cheap, but it was high at that time. You know, a nickel was a lot. I can't remember what my father lost but he worked the whole day for 50 cents or something. I guess in those days it was a lot of money.

Since your brother's here, do you want to introduce yourself just a little bit?

RI: My name is Richard Inouye. I'm the younger brother of Lily Katayama. I live in Fresno.

LK: He gardens four days a week and on Fridays he does his business and he'll come to the ranch. He owns the family ranch. 

I heard that your house is still standing that your father built. That's amazing. 

And the barn's still there. [It's over] 90 years old. 1904.

Yeah, the barn's older because my dad when he built that house, he built the barn so he could live in there and he built the house as he went along. A lot of people would come, stayed there before the war even. Because we used to stay in the barn before.

So do you remember the day Pearl Harbor was bombed? What was it like?

Well we were in shock of course and our ears were glued to the radio. The uncertainty of everything [inaudible] But right away we had to turn in our -- if you had a shortwave radio or your guns, flashlights, cameras -- had to be turned into a police department and we never got those back. And never returned to us. 

Were you out in the field when you first heard about Pearl Harbor or were you inside the house?

Being Sunday probably, I don't remember. 

Some fathers were taken away by the FBI if they worked for a Japanese company or were priests. Did you know anybody?

Uh huh, an uncle in Imperial County. And also an uncle in Delano. He was not the leader type but they took most of the men in Delano. Practically the whole community. And I still remember in camp years later where these men were brought back to see the families thought they went in for questioning and then they were gone. And they went to Corpus Christi, Texas and Bismarck, North Dakota and Albuquerque, New Mexico. And I remember as they let some of them go I guess they were deemed safe. That they weren't a threat then they were returned to the camp and we all used to go and greet them -- I still remember the bus coming in. 

Must have been so scary because you didn't know who was going to be taken. 

Right. I recall my second brother, Kaz, when he was at MIS school, our auntie, my uncle in the Imperial Valley's wife contacted him and his commander I guess wrote a letter in his behalf for his release. And he was released. I just heard this a few years ago. 

I think that's really scary. "Oh this uncle. He was taken away for questioning but he hasn't come back and he hasn't come back and he hasn't come back. And days go by and weeks go by and they say, "Well they took him somewhere." 

Then they had to go to camp without the head of the household. We were scared just, you know, having the whole family unit there.

Do you remember the period between Pearl Harbor and when they gave you the order to evacuate?

Oh yes. You know there was a curfew. We had to be in by 8 o'clock.

Lily’s daughter: The main source of news was the radio for you or did you also get newspapers?

Yes we got newspapers. 

Lily’s daughter: So were the newspapers also full of reports of Japanese espionage? Was there a lot of local hysteria in the papers too or was that only for the papers in the big city?

No there was some hysteria here also but the Selma paper, the editor was not prejudiced you know, reported it like he saw it. Being a small community everybody knew everyone. In fact I think his subscriptions [dropped] because he was vocal in supporting us.

Well there were people who were outspoken whether they were against the Japanese communities or sympathetic. So that was the editor's way of being outspokenly sympathetic. Do remember people who were outspokenly against the Japanese people?

I don't remember that. But there is Mr. Hoy, Harry Hoy was a teacher at Selma High School and he used to visit the students and their families in camp, frequently. There were people like that, who'd travel all the way to Arizona.

That was well known in this area. Just a good person. I didn't mention about my friend Mary's father. He was a labor contractor. He's a businessman and we used to pick grapes with him under his leadership and we did it on our own. But he had a stroke about that time and so he did not go to camp with us. They allowed him to stay there but then he went later to Poston, he had to move later but he had a stroke. 

You know we never traveled out of the county, I mean of course we went to live Fresno County, we went to church there. The only time I ever went out of the county was when we went to see the World's Fair in San Francisco. I remember going there and staying at a hotel.

So the prospect of moving out of state was probably really big and scary. Lots of unknowns. Would you like to talk about the whole process of packing up?

Well after the 19th of February when President Roosevelt deemed that persons of Japanese ancestry had to move out of the West Coast and we had to go for our shots. So we had to go three times for diphtheria, tetanus, typhoid and smallpox shots. And because we lived in Kingsburg which was in Kings County, we went to Hanford to the Civic Auditorium. Long lines, long wait. And then my dad asked our neighbor Mr. Andonegan to lease our place. And so, you heard the stories where they would get rid of the property just like that. Then we stored everything in the one bedroom. But the day we left the locked wasn't working and he was supposed to fix it but there was something’s missing later, you know, a few things.

Now you know, I try to imagine what that was like. You don't know how long the war is going to last. And if you were the neighbor taking care of property that the Japanese Americans owned it's like, well we don't know when you're gonna come back and we don't know if you're gonna come back. I mean it was a big responsibility, and a strange responsibility but he was willing to take it on.

Oh my brother, shortly after Pearl Harbor, was inducted to the service. My brother wanted to go in his place. My brother Tak. So Kaz the second one wanted to go in his place because you know, let the older ones stay home. And so he went into the service on January 27th of 1942. 

So he volunteered.

Yes.  He wanted to go into the Air Force, but you know, boys of Japanese ancestry and other nationalities could not join I believe the Air Force or Navy until early 50s. They were discriminated against. And then there were soldiers who were in the service before December 7th. And after December 7th the guns were turned on them and they were serving their country. We've heard many stories of that.

And then my brother went to Camp Robinson in Little Rock, Arkansas for his basic training. And then he went to Fort Riley, Kansas and then they were looking for volunteers for the MIS program. And so he was volunteered to go to Minnesota and it used to be at Camp Savage at that time. So after he was there about a month or two, his buddies in Fort Riley, Kansas wrote to him and told him that President Roosevelt was going to make a visit to Fort Riley. So there were Japanese American soldiers working in the ordnance in the area, warehouse or in the mess hall. They were all rounded up and placed in a warehouse, locked in there, during the president's- during their commander in chief's visit. 

How they must've felt locked up in a warehouse. What humiliation.

So I tell that story all the time.

So your brother was bilingual and that's why he was volunteered?

Well they went to 11 years of Japanese school. They weren't that proficient but enough. I think later on it was Fort Snelling. The other night somebody said they went to Monterey, too.

Was he able to write to you guys?

Uh huh. I think there was censorship, too.

Which way? From the base to you or from you to the base? 

From him, or what he was doing, to us. I don't think there was any censorship going to him. 

So you knew about this because you had lines that were crossed out sometimes?

Yes.

Do you remember going to the assembly center? 

Yes. The morning of May 13, 1942. In 10 days it'll be 60 years. On that morning Mr. Andonigan came over in his car, picked his up --  the lock wouldn't work on that door.

 Did you pack yourself or does your Mom pack it?

I don't recall. 

Okay. So you know, some children were excited and happy, like they thought they were going on a trip but you knew what was happening. What did you know? What were you told? 

Well there was uncertainty. Where we were going or how long and when? And then from there we went on the bus to Fresno Assembly Center which was the infield of the racetrack there. We were in a barrack. There in Fresno Assembly Center, the blocks were alphabetical. So we were one of the first to go so I guess we were in Block C. C-13-1. There must've been about 20 barracks in the block. 

So did you know your neighbors and where could you find the people that you knew from Selma at the fairgrounds?

No, after Kingsburg there is just about one or two families from our areas. We knew where they were. We found them right away. Found our cousins from Delano. They were Block D or E. Then we didn't go to school that term, it was May when we left. But my husband's family and people that were on the east side of the highway left in August could finish that school term. But then we had summer school. I remember singing patriotic songs. 

How ironic.

Oh and then I took piano lessons. I took piano lessons from 4th grade on up. Cardboard piece that folded up into fourths and you opened it up and it was painted black and white. I always wanted a piano but we couldn't afford it. So I went to camp and my mother paid for my lessons and then I went to Mrs. Kazuye 

Tell us about the toilets, please.

Oh yes [laughs]. The toilets, they call them the latrines. The ladies' was in a building all by itself. And you go in there you'll see two rows of toilets maybe six on each side. Back to back with no partitions. But the thing was it would automatically flush about every two to five minutes, whether anyone was sitting. And at one end the water would slosh up or I guess it ran from one to the other or something but. I had forgotten about that until somebody mentioned that the other day, it kind of came back to me. But why I remember that is it was kind of across our barrack. But it was nighttime you know, can't sleep or starting to sleep you could hear them flushing. And so the ladies would fashion little partition out of large cardboard boxes and take it for privacy and or else they would go late at night. That was humiliation. You know women back then. 

Even today. Well the reason why I wanted to know about the toilets is because it would flush every 2 to 5 minutes but I was told that it would flush from one side to the other. So you had to be careful if you sat in the other-- that the water come out like a volcano -- water and other things -- would sort of like-- 

I guess it would hit the end there. Okay, we were there 'til October and then we found out that we’re going to Arkansas.

Do remember the train ride from Fresno to Arkansas?

Oh yes, everyone who went on the train remembers that. We were told strictly that when we slowed down or came into a town, that we were to pull our shades and we were not to look out. Everyone speaks of that. And we read the southern route, like through Barstow, Bakersfield and going through Texas took a long time. Then we got there in the middle of the night and the camp was not completed. You know these were hastily built camps. Getting back to assembly center they had a wall and then the rafters were all exposed, so you can hear all the way down, so there was no privacy.

So there was only one light bulb in each room?

I think so. It was really dark ‘cause it’s way up there. And then at 10:00 the bugle from the grandstand area, P.A. system, would sound and we had to be indoors. And there was a bed check. They called everybody's name. You had to reply, yes. Down to the littlest kid [laughs]. Maybe they had several people doing it because they’d have to be up really late. 

So did they actually come into your room?

Oh yes they’d knock on the door. Not only answer but be there.

One man I know who was a general contractor just says, boy you know when the government really wants to do something it can really do something fast. We didn't say it was done well but it was done fast. And you know the people in the restricted areas like San Pedro near naval installations had to move out quickly so a lot of them relocated up here. Because they had to leave quickly.

We came in the middle of the night [to Jerome]. And our Block was not completed. And then our mess hall was not ready and so we had to go to Block 41. It was about a month we had to go to the next block to eat because ours was not completed. We were in Block 32-8, C and D. We got the middle rooms. And my dad was a carpenter so he made a door in-between the two rooms and also, he made outside a little like, porch.

So did you have animals that you had to contend with in Arkansas? Snakes or--

Oh yes, the guards. They were lax. In fact we didn’t see them, and they let us out in the bayous. We had the bayous. And so there were water moccasins and copperhead snakes. We could go in there for miles to walk. Middle of a forest. They just made a clearing. Luckily while we were there in the three years that there were no tornadoes. But we remember the thunderstorms. The lightning would hit the chimney. And boy, it was really loud. Each room had a stove, so there were several chimneys. I think maybe we shared one chimney and there might have been like three. Maybe they shared chimneys. But those southern storms are really frightening. Oh the thunder.

What were your days like? Your typical days?

Well there was school, we went to school. And in summertime we just played. Like I said when we were home we either went to school or work but here we played.

Did you just hang out with your friends?

Yes. At first the family unit was a unit because we didn’t know anyone we went to eat as a family. And later on as we became friends with other people then we would eat with our friends. Everybody in the camps worked. My dad and my oldest brother were a carpenter; my mother and oldest sister were waitresses. So when we went to eat they were working. My sister Hiru was a ward clerk in the hospital. My sister Sumi was in high school. I was in elementary school and Richard was three years old.

I talked to one man who said that being in camp meant not as many chores for him. So he was happy about that.

The kids were all happy, like my mother never went on a vacation. She learned to crochet and you know, visit with ladies.

Did you miss home?

Oh yes. And my friends. Oh I’ll never forget when I was at the assembly center when I first went into camp, all my classmates wrote -- came in one bundle. I really wish I had those now. They all wrote to me. Depending on your teacher. 

Would you like to talk about any other aspect of your camp life? 

The mothers of the service men got a little hanky like this. It was made out of fabric. And inside was white and then it's a white background. And for every son or daughter they had in the military, a star for each one. So my mother was in the camp and also got one and they kind of hung it out by the window so people could see that two sons were serving in the military.

Did your brother visit you whenever he got furlough?

Yes. Before he went overseas or even before when he got a furlough he came to visit, and my mother would get special food and either bring cooked food from the mess hall. Well he'd stay a while. So sometimes she did that sometimes she did cook something special [when we were] together at home. And then my sister, when they allowed people to relocate to other parts of the U.S., anywhere from the West Coast. Some went to Idaho for the potatoes, some went to Montana, Colorado for the sugar beets. Then my brother went to Bridgeport, Connecticut, and he was carpenter there. And he was befriended with the New England War Relocation person and corresponded with him many many years. And then my oldest sister Miwa went to St. Louis, Missouri as a schoolgirl as a kind of a maid. And one thing she related was when she would go on the bus the Chinese people would wear a big button saying they were Chinese so they wouldn't be mistaken for Japanese. And she used to visit and I'm sure they both sent the money back to my parents.

In camp, each person got $3.75 a month, kind of an allowance. So we used to look at the Montgomery Ward Sears catalog a lot. That was like a little Bible. We dreamed, you know look at the things in there.

What would $3 buy you?

In those days it was a lot of money. When we went to school in the sleet. I remember we were issued P jackets that were like what the Navy people wore. Heavy but warm. Went to church every Sunday and I took piano lessons again.

So you said in Jerome you didn't see any guards?

Well hardly. Maybe at first but later they were abandoned guardhouses, guard towers. We used to walk way out to the bayous, I mean where could you go?

And why were you transferred to Rowher?

Everybody knows about the yes/yes no/no business. There are two questions that the boys 17 and older and maybe others had to answer whether they would hold allegiance to the United States. And the next question is, will they serve in the military? Well then the boys started to volunteer

and then went into the service and so with the boys leaving and the others relocated from the other camps -- the camps were sort of thinning out. Oh I didn't finish about the people going to like Colorado, some families moved to Seabrook Farms in New Jersey and other, the ladies would go places where they had factories to help out in the war effort. And so the camps were thinning out. And so they closed our camp. It was a large camp but they closed our camp. [I heard] that it was also used for prisoner of war camp, German.

And so we had to move, we could go anywhere. We went to Rohwer. And my uncle's family from Delano also went to Rohwer so I guess they talked it over so we went there, 26 miles away. And I don't remember the people in Rohwer, you know, it was just a year. I had to live from Selma to Gila three years there and back. We moved to the Assembly Center to Jerome and Rohwer. Rohwer was L.A. people.

Well what did your family decide to do? Do you remember your parents talking about it?

Well we went home because we had our ranch. My husband's family was one of the first to leave the camp, January 1945. And they came back to Selma and they didn't like going to Kingsburg or Selma -- there was a lot of prejudice there but they liked going to Reedly because the Mennonite people were very kind.

So we came up back the northern route by train. And we stopped by St. Louis because the train went right through St. Louis and picked up my sister there. Meanwhile I never did say my oldest brother was inducted to the service. He went to Bridgeport, Connecticut as a carpenter and from there he was inducted to the service and he also went to the MIS training in school in Minnesota. And he also visited us in camp.

Did you get to know what he was doing? That he was being trained to be interrogator or translator to work in the Pacific theater as an MIS man? 

I think so but they couldn't talk too much about it. 

So at the end of war you left camp when?

June of 1945. 

So it was five kids and your parents? So you all congregated again even though some of you had spread out to work in the Midwest. What did it feel like to come home?

Oh we were scared of course. [We had a] long layover on the train in Sacramento. And I went to the movies with my sisters and their friends, bunch of us girls and we were really scared but there was a long layover. And then we came home and our neighbors and our friends welcomed us. And we bought our eggs and our milk from our neighbors, rarely went to town. There was one grocery store and right in front there was big banner that said, "No Japs allowed." So we just didn't go there and we just figured, you know, we don't want to make trouble. We just figured they'd lose our business. But then I always [say at my] talks, can you imagine when a young person or a teenager would do in protest if they saw a sign like that in these times? 60 years ago was different. 

Well you were so scared you wouldn't dare protest. Were you able to just move into your family home? Nobody had lived there all that time?

Then it was summer and so the neighbor was still running the farm. We started school in September, 8th grade at Roosevelt school in Kingsburg. My sister was a senior at Kingsburg high school. And my brothers helped -- oh my brothers weren't back. But I do remember this. I always wanted a piano.  And because [my brother] was a veteran, we were moved up several more notches [to buy things]. And my mother bought me a piano. Maybe 1946 or '7. 

You weren't dead broke, then. I mean, to buy a piano that's a luxury item.

Yeah it is. So it wasn't right away but I remember. Well it had to be kind of right away. He's was a veteran that he--you know.

Do you remember when they announced the war was over?

Mm, vaguely. And the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all that. 

So your neighbors were willing to just use the land 'til the end of the calendar year and hand it back to you? 

I guess they had sort of a warning because they knew war was coming to an end. We always corresponded with them, too. 

Well for a lot of people, the hard years were after the war, after the camp. Because the camp was hard but coming back was even harder because they had to reestablish. So do you think you--

Not for us. Maybe others didn't know what they were going to do or where they were going. Like my father in law they lived in a place on Manning Avenue by half a mile in and a lot of people stopped over there, a lot of little shacks there, built hastily 'cause people whose ranches weren't free, or homes weren't free, stayed there. It was like a camp. But they didn't work for him or anything they just stayed there. I don't think they charged him anything. It was friends.

Would you call yourselves lucky that you didn't lose a lot of stuff?

Uh huh, I'm thankful for that, you know, my dad had the foresight to try and see ahead, or think ahead. 

We'll jump right ahead to the '80s when there was the redress movement. What did you think about that? Did you think it would be worth anything?

See we never talked about camp life. We maybe referred to somebody living in a certain block or we knew somebody from camp but we never spoke of it. Like I say, you know, it was like a shame thing. We thought it was a shame thing against us when it was a shame thing against our government. And so we never talked about it at home to our children or anything. But after the redress, then people started to talk about it. We'd go to weddings and while we're waiting you know at the reception before it would start, you have to wait. Or at funerals we'd share our experiences. And yeah we were excited about the money and all but you know all those lost years. Like I was telling you about this rancher who made quite a bit of money  because the prices during war time were really high, good prices. 

When you first heard about people -- Edison Uno -- wanting to start this, did you think it was, you know we shouldn't ask the government--

Yeah that was the first reaction. Yeah that's for sure.

Because? 

It kind of stirs things up. Then I've been thinking of the last week or so, too. Hearing on this thing again I kind of really tired of it, you know what I mean? And I've been talking about it for 17 years to the young people. Trying to educate the young people.  And a lot of the older people don't like to have it stirred up. But you people like the Sanseis or Yonseis are wondering why we went, this and that, and makes a good story and all that but -- we don't really talk about it. Guess 'cause we lived through it. Sometimes when you hear about it, it sounds more different than living through it. 

Well living through it it's your own perspective. But if you listen to other people's stories, it's all these different perspectives it doesn't feel like your experience and it shouldn't be, it's somebody else's story.

Each one's different. 

Well some I talked to a few people who weren't going to even register to get the reparations money. At the end I don't know of anybody who really didn't get the money. You know because it's like well, towards the end of the deadline, people were convinced that it was the right thing that the government should apologize in a monetary way as well as with words. How about you -- did you think that it was good to be compensated monetarily?

Yeah. But it's, what price can you put on one's freedom? What price?

Freedom, the humiliation that you suffered, and in your family you might not have lost as much but you sure did lose a lot. 

Oh yeah. Not so much for me but my older brother and sister. They were in the prime of their life. They're late teenagers or early 20s. Just starting out in life, it just kind of pushed back their timeline of going to school, higher education.

When the apology letter and the redress money came out, were your parents alive? 

Oh no.

So they were not able to enjoy. I mean they suffered a lot.

They're the one that suffered economically and emotionally.

Were anybody in the Central Valley involved in the movement itself?

I don't know. Well probably the people in the JACL.

Well in 1952, law was finally passed so that immigrant Asian populations can become U.S. citizens.

Yes my parents were both naturalized citizens. 

Did they both jump to it? 

Oh yes. They went to school and studied and the Constitution and -- 

How did it feel for you being their child? You know to watch your parents-- 

Well I was proud of them to go through that. You know 'cause English was their second language and to have to learn it in English. 

Do you think something like this could happen again? 

Well hopefully not with all our civil rights laws, too. But you know what went on after 9/11.

Well here's the last question for you, from me. If you could tell the young people today a word of wisdom based on your experiences what would it be?

Not to generalize or stereotype any groups of people. That we're all equal and someone else may have more education, or have more money or social status but no one's better than the other. And the only way as I said, education is the key, I think. Do unto others, I guess.

Lily’s daughter: You mentioned that you had a very strong Buddhist upbringing.  And do you think that helped you cope with all this turmoil? 

Yes that and our culture, we're just that type of people. We just try to be good citizens and we did what we were told to do. That's about it, huh?  

I remember at Fresno State forum you talked about being proud to be an American.

Yes I am. In fact, I've been playing "God Bless America." Before 9/11. And "America the Beautiful." I mean I love those songs. And you know, the young people never knew what it was, that we were brought up that way. You know, you save for a rainy day and all different things. The young people never had anything in their lives, like you people never seen anything like 9/11. And we've been through the war and all that. So we knew how it was. You know how, we've had fear and all that in our lives. But young people were so carefree. I'm not saying it should've happened or anything like that but we kind of learn each time something like this happens. But it brought us together, see this is what it did in wartime. Kind of unifies our country at that time and now. It is a wakeup call. You know, we don't realize or appreciate what we have until things like this happen.

Interview conducted by Grace Megumi Fleming. JAMsj thanks Grace for allowing the museum to archive and share these oral histories